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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Propane Freeze?

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steve_ne

01-02-2008 06:10:28




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I have an International 500 Payloader. It runs on propane. I believe I have frozen the fuel line or converter. What is the best way to test and or thaw it out. I have let it set for many days but the temp is not getting much above freezing. When I crank on it you can smell propane I have spark. I've got a block heater

OT: also got one of those cheap Harbor freight on board battery chargers seem to do the job.

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Billy NY

01-02-2008 15:27:26




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
Well, mine just fired off on the first try, was about 20 deg, would not do that recently, things warmed up and was back running a few days ago, stalled yesterday, something electrical, temps started to drop again, glad it did fire off, now in the heated garage so I can deal with the electrical issue, like was mentioned, get some heat on it, make sure the battery is up and it ought to fire off, just make sure the electrical connections are good on that vaporizor and the coolant level is up to full, kind of helps too.

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Jon Hagen

01-02-2008 11:18:08




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
Steve, try a shot of starting fluid in the air intake on the chance it is too cold for good propane vaporization and is too lean to start.

If it is flooded with liquid propane, then using a hair dryer to warm the vaporizer has always worked. The 2 pickups and 2 tractors I run on IMPCO fuel systems will usually start at 0 with only a good primer. At 20 below or colder where you get almost no propane vaporization, I have found that a shot of ether in the air intake will get it fire a few cylinders which seems to be enough to keep it running on a pretty cold/lean propane mix.

When you do get it running, let it idle dead slow until the coolant warms enough to keep the vaporizer from freezing.
The engine coolant heater will usually also warm the vaporizer for easy winter starts.

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Billy NY

01-02-2008 10:48:51




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
It looks similar to my LP ford tractor, same tank, and I thought I could see the vaporizor int he photo, looks like an IMPCO.

I'm still not entirely sure at what temperature these systems start to act up, but low 20's seems to cause me problems here. Assuming the LP is not vaporizing and you are getting liquid, somehow you need some heat on the fuel system.

I leave the tank off on mine and put it inside, install it when I need to start the tractor, tent off the engine compartment and get some heat going, even locally onto the vaporizor/carb via say a wagner heat gun, what have you, just use care, it does not have to get hot, just warm. I don't like open flame due to the fuel involved, make sure you have no leaks, even that heat gun would set it off I supppose. Once it fires and you can keep it running, it should have a coolant line circulating through the vaporizor, once that coolant it warmed, the vaporizor will stay warm. I've had my tractor out in below zero weather, but I started off from a heated garage, never had any trouble that way with the fuel system, but from a cold start it is a different story, also found that putting a rebuild kit into the vaporizor made a difference on fuel consumption and cold starts, mine was leaking internally, seems a little easier to deal with in the cold now.

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Owen Aaland

01-02-2008 10:21:01




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
I don't remember what the freezing point of propane is but the boiling point at atmospheric pressure is about -42 degrees. At temperatures below that there will not be any pressure in the tank to push the propane out to the converter/mixer.

What you are experiencing most likely is flooding caused by not having enough heat available to vaporize the fuel before it leaves the converter. Propane expands 270 times it volume when changing from liquid to vapor so just a few drops of liquid in the mixer will cause the fuel mixtures to be too rich to run. When it is flooded, shut the fuel off at the tank or fuel shut off and crank the engine until it fires. It may run a second or two as the flooding clears. Then open the fuel and try restarting it.

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JT

01-02-2008 06:48:23




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
You using a liquid draw system, a neighbor has a fork lift that uses a liquid draw and he heats the tank with a little propane torch to get it warm enough to vaporaize and run. you probably are not getting it to vaporize and it is staying liquid, and henceforth will not start and run.
P.S. That is a cute little tractor, though.
What does it use for a heat exchanger to get the propane to vaporize?

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steve_ne

01-02-2008 10:12:52




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to JT, 01-02-2008 06:48:23  
It looks as if it uses a line of antifreeze right before the termostat.



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rrlund

01-02-2008 06:44:47




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
My Dad was transportation supervisor and head bus mechanic for the local school system during the last "energy crisis". They changed all the busses over to LP to save money. On cold Michigan mornings they would freeze up. I couldn't tell you if it was the regulator or convertor or what it was,but on those real cold mornings he would have to go in an hour early,raise the hoods one at a time and thaw something out with a hair dryer. If you know what it is that's freezing up,try the hair dryer trick. If you're aging as poorly as I am,you don't need it in the bathroom anymore anyway. :)

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the Unforgiven

01-02-2008 06:30:51




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
It's not frozen, you have some sort of problem. I would suspect a problem with your converter or ignition system especially if you are smelling lp.



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steve_ne

01-02-2008 10:10:22




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to the Unforgiven, 01-02-2008 06:30:51  
Might be. I've got good spark. smells of lp. Does anyone know if they have any safety switches that might cause it not to start. Presure switches??? Not many of these machine. But I do like it so far.



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Norm in Alabama

01-02-2008 06:23:21




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 Re: Propane Freeze? in reply to steve_ne, 01-02-2008 06:10:28  
When we were in Alaska we poured hot water on the tank and lines, mostle the tank. You aslo might pour some on the other componets especially the regulator. It worked real for us.



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