OT; What are the elderly going to do?

I sorry but I don't feel sorry for people who can't help themselves. I never made more than $30 K a year in my life but I am pretty much set for the rest of my life because I managed my money so that I can live quite comfortably until I'm called up there.

I may sound mean but I'm sorry I just can't feel sorry for people who while away their time and never think about their retirement days.

Walt

I for one commend this elderly couple for sitting in the cold instead of running to the government. If they get cold enough and learn a little humility, they'll eventually ask for help or they will be cold by their own choice.

I for one would burn every piece of furniture in my house before I asked anyone for help. Whatever happened to being embarrassed to be on welfare or government assisstance? I also commend Old Ford Mechanic for looking out for them and getting neighbors to help. Thats the way it should be. The government should be a last resort, not the first option as many of you think. I'll bet Old Ford and a few neighbors will not only get the heat on, but will also contact a few family members, they'll have the local church members check in on them with a hot meal and conversation, someone will eventually help sort out a few finances to keep the heat on all winter. All without any government program that will cost all of us ten times the money to implement with one tenth the results Old Ford & Co can provide.

Part of the problem of todays society is that all responsibilities have been shed by everyone because now the government will do it all for free. Kids don't take care of parents in their old age. Neighbors don't help each other. Churches get a black eye if they offer to help. Some of you people and your responses just show how far this nation has come from being self-reliant individuals who give to those in need to a bunch of dependents who take what they can get away with because they don't have to answer to anyone.
Free prescriptions, heating assistance, tax reductions for the elderly. Where do you people think the money comes from?
The government is nothing more than you and me!!
The government is nothing more than your own neighbors. Only people today don't have to look you in the eye and ask for your help with their hat in hand and be thankfull to you or responsible for how they spend what they receive. Whats more, people today don't even ask for help from the government, they demand help from the government (you and me)and they are so bold as to say they "deserve" or are "entitled" to your money via programs and assistance.
How would you feel if you came home from a hard days work and your sitting at your supper table with your hungry kids with a meal purchased by your hard labor and someone knocked on your door and DEMANDED you fill his fist with cash because he's wandered around all day doing nothing and now he's cold and hungry?
We are a generous people here in the US and will help when asked, but I have a big problem with people who think I owe them everything via the government just because they don't live within their means or waste their paycheck on non-essentials and always make poor life choices.
Lets help these people help themselves instead of making them one more pair of dependents sucking on the hind teat of our government.

Old Ford, can you identify with any character in the following?

GENTLEMAN #1

At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.

SCROOGE

Are there no prisons?

GENTLEMAN #1

Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

SCROOGE

And the Union workhouses? Are they still in operation?

GENTLEMAN #2

They are. Still, I wish I could say they were not.

SCROOGE

The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?

GENTLEMAN #1 & #2

Both very busy, sir.

SCROOGE

Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course. I'm very glad to hear it.

GENTLEMAN #2

Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude, a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'

SCROOGE

Nothing!

GENTLEMAN #1

You wish to be anonymous?

SCROOGE

I wish to be left alone. Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned -- they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.

GENTLEMAN #2

Many can't go there; and many would rather die.

SCROOGE

If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that.

GENTLEMAN #1

But you might know it,' observed the gentleman.

SCROOGE

It's not my business. It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!

(Seeing clearly that it would be useless to pursue their point, the gentlemen withdrew. Scrooge returned his labours with an improved opinion of himself, and in a more facetious temper than was usual with him.)

This last year I had some medical bills for things that I have been putting off and they blew up this year. These, compared to most, are fairly small ticket items. I am self-employed and self-insured, so they drained our savings anyway.

Winter has always been a very tight time for us financially. We just hunker down and make it through. This winter has been tighter than usual. So I made a big effort to see if anyone I knew needed anyone to do ANYTHING for them. Some did, most didn't but promised to ask around. What troubled me most was that quite a few wanted to tell me where I could go for a government handout.

My parents were divorced when I was a kid. My father got tired of child support payments and left the state. My mother needed back surgery. Well, we were on "welfare" for exactly three months before she could get back to work. Even while she was home convalescing, she took a telemarketing job with a local company selling double pain replacement windows (this was in the late 70s). I know that taking these handouts for even that long grated on her. Well, years later she told me something I always have remembered. Whenever someone gives you something for nothing, there are ALWAYS strings attached, even if they are invisible.

This subject just touched a nerve and had to add my 2 cents.

Christopher

The economics of it all if nothing else. A blind person not paying any taxes now works and probably would pay that much in income tax the first year.

I certianly expect alot of --there are services for this and that etc. Anyone making such a statment has lived in a glass bubble. It simply does not work very often like that. And for anyone making the statment -I did it on my own, no luckey breaks, just hard work ---etc. I certianly hope you can brag to the day you die. The last pages in many books are torn and worn. May the good Lord never teach you a real lesson.
And may your name never appear in this web site. Link

My father who is 89 tells of the depression in NH when able body men went into the town forest and cut firewood for the townspeople who couldn"t afford heat. Other people raised food to help feed the town. People did what they could to help keep everyone going, since there wasn"t much money they didn"t get any, just pooled what was available and shared. They took care of each other and made it through, no recriminations about if the people had planned ahead, saved, or had been smart enough to have a high paying job.

Well we live in a different time now, I think the rich would say a better time. People don"t seem to be interrested in their neighbors lives anymore, I think they call it the "me generation".

OFM keep up the good work, maybe someday people will realize that this is suppose to be a nation of people, not just screwing other people for your own benefit.

Warren

Due to some bad circumstances my 74 yr old MIL with cancer was getting by on $350 a month.Her abusive ex husband died and now she gets $700 a month and feels like shes rich.We moved her 250 miles up here so we can help take care of her.

Some on here are critical of people for having no savings.They forget that a great many people live in rural areas where $20 an hour jobs with health benefits and a 401K is just a dream.Around here $10-12 an hour is common.You just get by on that.

I work at a plant with a 401K and lots of us have taken a terrible beating lately due to the stock market plunge.Some are now thinking of postponing their retirements.We have no safe place to put our money.We are still in lots better shape than others.

There really is no incentive to save anymore.The Fed interest rate cuts keep savings interest rates low.Putting all your money in the stock market is risky.

We have 482 billionaires in the U.S. and some of them arent very generous with their money.Their only worry is how they are going to make their next billion.They dont have to worry about how to pay for their next tank of LP.$4.00 a gallon LP for people on fixed incomes is a hardship.

A couple in there late 30's now. They have 3 kids ranging from 2yrs to 18yo. They will be in 40yrs just like your neighbors your now trying to help. Why?

They didn't finish high school. They have always had low paying jobs when they can find them and don't keep jobs but a short time when they do. A suggestion to get "free" additional education to obtain higher paying jobs falls on closed ears as watching movies and TV is more important.

They can't keep up with any of there bills and always in arrears. It was suggested they seek "free" money management guidence but they don't have time as there's TV and movies to watch and Circle K sells beer, ciggerates and pop cheaper than the discount stores.

They had a chance to have 3.3a and a home free and clear of a mortage due to there grandparents grace. Instead they bought a new mobil home with payments that in 8yrs now has holes in the walls and doors and is now getting repo'd. They can move in town tho and rent a appartment for $700. There existing MH payment, property tax, and utility's are under $500/mth. They all had cell phones and a landline with caller ID for screening out creditor calls. Phone and electric is now disconnected for past due bills.

They can't feed there family so a $100 donation for food bought beer and pizza hut that night. I guess 3.3a is not big enough to raise a garden to feed the family.

It was suggested they might take a second job to get caught up on there past bills. Wow, you'd think someone would have suggested they rob a bank from the look on there face.

So save your money so you can besure to buy them some heat when they get in the 70's as they surely won't have a pot to pi$$ in when they get that old.

I would also think I'd rethink my money spending habbits being 70yo of just how much relief I'm getting from all those pills VS freezing from the cold???

What were they doing this past summer when it was warm where gathering "free" firewood was easy? Fire places were and are made from the clay soil and rocks really easy and has been for several thousand years, Or having the sun heat hot water for house heating and domestic HW use?

Last summer a 10ftx20ft garden would have fed two people all year plus gave the people some exercise thus freed up some money to pay the heating bill and maybe cut down there pill usage?

Poor planning just can't be helped for someone that don't want to help themselfs.

T_Bone

Well even in the AZ desert I can find plenty of free firewood. Is the wood No1 firewood quality that needs cut and split? Absolutely not! But it'll still provide heat if needed.

Don't get me wrong, I also realize our Federal gov't should have regulated utility's many many years ago for just this very reason.

At the same time they should have also made it illegal for utilitys to buy prime farm land and turn it into homes for profit while asking to rasise the cost of utility's to cover the loans and construction like they do here in AZ.

I've posted many times on the Tool forum of how to build a top quality solar hot water heating system that can be easyly built for under a $1000 at today's costs. It may very well not provide for 100% heat in extreme cold climates but it'll supply 90% of a family's heating requirement.

I too am concerned for my neighbors well being but how do you help people that are just like the ones in my example that just happens to be true?

T_Bone

So when you are in your 70's and in poor health you are going to gather wood and garden all summer.These people were sitting in the cold and were asking no one for help.They were probably used to paying their own way and were too proud to or didnt even know where to ask for help.They never dreamed that in a few short years LP would go from $1.00 a gallon up to $4.00 a gallon.

Sure why not raise a garden. Your gonna hurt requardless if you sit in a chair to watch TV or raise a garden. Aches and pains are just part of life of old age and there's not a pill around that will make it feel any better.

Firewood comes in all sizes. Just pick-up the ones that your body can handle. There's tons available for "free".

I also feel bad for the couple that they made such a poor choice this winter but if the truth was known this also probably happened last winter too and that was my point.

You can't make someone use good common sence to plan ahead.

Those 30yo's is my family that I was talking about. My daughter was never raised that way but she has that attitude that I just described. Why I have no idea. I been asking myself that question for over 20yrs and it's never been answered yet.

T_Bone

The way I figure it is that we are all human beings and if this a genuine need then we need to be our Brothers keepers'. The memories of lost or spent monies don't last for long but the memories of "those old folks" last a lifetime and then some .... send me an address to send them some money ASAP. Thanks OLD, thanks !

So what has that got to do with old folks and no heat/medicine/so forth? I"ll tell you.

The old folks of today....are a product of the post war era, like I/we are. They became adults after the Depression and believed FDR"s New Deal would save them from what their parents suffered through, before there was a Social Security Administration and 99 other alphabet agencies, supposedly designed to save us from ourselves. But....the Boom ended about time the old folks were retiring. Their children (that"d be me..I"m 50) were used to having the benefits of the Boom years..I entered the work force before the boom was over in the late 70"s. Things were great! I made great wages, the best benefits, and working conditions were superb. I also seen all that end by the late 80"s.

Greed at the top began to take a sickening turn. The robber barons running the show weren"t happy to make $5 million a year...no....they wanted $20 million. The way to get it was....screw the workforce. Take the benefits away and end pay raises....so they could stick that in their pockets. The manufacturers decided to go to China and Mexico and India where they have no EPA, little to no taxes and pay .30 cents an hour to produce their goods...which they bring back here and dump on the market. We blame the Chinese....it"s not their fault. No...they welcome the greedy American moguls who come to invest their billions, so they can maximize profits. The manufacturers don"t want to pay us to make the goods...but they expect us to buy them.

Okay...so what does this economic lecture have to do with poor old folks? All those FDR social plans still in place that the old folks depend on, are funded by an ever decreasing tax base...while the mouths feeding from the pot are growing. In order to keep SS alive....the Government keeps increasing the taxes...this reduces take home pay..which reduces the standard of living for the working class. Pay more, get less.

Either the politicos running the show are going to have to grow some balls and do something, or a collapse will come. Then perhaps a Revolution. Change must happen.

Old folks can take a Homestead exemption on their house taxes..that should lower their taxes quite a bit. There are prescription programs available for those who cannot afford them....I know, I am on one. These folks need to talk to their doctor about it. I did and was introduced to a patient advocate from a local hospital and she set me up in a program that provides me with over $500 of medicine a month....free. How this works is: the Feds have never placed a cap on what the Pharmaceutical companies can charge for their goods in this country.....so they require that they give so much of it away for free. Of course they don"t tell it....but, there are people who know about it and can help you get the free medicines you need.

Figure this families S.S. payments over the 45+ years they have worked. Now tell me the government is giving them a fair amount each month based on payments in and interest money made.
I think not..... .....

Now on the other hand if you want to talk about welfare or food stamps to someone to LAZY or high to work then you do have a point.

Whos job is it, goverments? Big business?

anyone who is depending on a fixed goverment pension alone for retirement has missed the boat.

People need to learn to take care of themselves with looking to the goverment or charity.

These old people arent asking anyone to help them.It looks like their neighbors and friends are going to help them which is great.If they dont come up with enough money I'm in.

I also manage to put a few dollars away each week for my future

steveormary