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cold cranking amps

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kyle in ny

02-18-2008 07:05:47

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I was wondering if anyone could tell me how many cold cranking amps I should need to start my IH 2444 gasser in 15-20 degree weather. I tried to start it in the field and it turnd over slowly but would not start. I am currently using a brand new marine deep cycle batt with 750/550 amps. Thanks in advance Kyle

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guido

02-20-2008 10:37:16

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

Hey Kile
A good battery will be reduced to about 50% of its capacity at 20 degrees.
So whatever the stater amp draw is the battery has to have that much capacity at that temperature. Good point about charging voltage>:) It should be 13.8 to 14.2 volts regulated. Marine battery belong in boats, can be used in other applications if the have the proper capacity.
Marine batteries are rated as CA (CRANCKING AMPS)at 32 degrees F. Automotive batteries are rated as CCA(COLD CRANKING AMPS) at 0 degrees F.
Guido

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RodInNS

02-18-2008 19:37:51

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

At 550 CCA you have a very marginal battery there to start any cold engine bigger than a lawn mower. The fact that you have a Deep Cycle battery isn't really a problem in and of itself. A deep cycle battery can be used for cranking. It's just that it doesn't produce near the cranking amps for it's size that a starting battery will... It's made for deep discharges and constant loads. A cranking battery would die a quick death doing what the deep cycle battery is made to do.
What I would suggest you do is measure the battery box you have and see what can be fitted in there in terms of physical size. If you can stuff a Group 31 truck battery in there, that would be my choice. They're relatively cheap to buy and the good ones will deliver 1000 CCA along with quite a resepctable reserve capacity. Also make sure that the cables and clamps are in good condition. I'd go with a double awg (00) cable to reduce the resistance as much as possible...
If you still have problems then look at the starter.

Rod

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Texasmark

02-18-2008 18:45:12

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

Deep cycle batteries are made from a few thick plates rather than a lot of thin plates. The thick plates resist heavy cycling better than thin ones like one would get with a trolling motor.

Therefore, with less surface area, one would expect, and it is advertised by the battery mfgr. that the deep cycle can't put out the CCA that the conventional battery can.

Buttttt always exceptions to the rule. I bought a well used 4010 Deere (80 pto hp) and it had a single 12v deep cycle battery for starting. I was totally amazed that it did a "pretty good" job of starting that tractor in N. Texas winter weather.

So, if you want a real cure, get a 900 (actually a pair wired in parallel) CCA truck battery with the shortest 00 gauge cables you can manage (locating the battery next to the starter really helps) with ALL the connections (including the grounds including the case of the starter) nice and clean, bright, and tight. Guarantee you you won't have that problem again.

Mark

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Jim Johnson

02-18-2008 18:20:52

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

It's the fact that you have a MARINE battery. Went to a pull once and this ol' boy had a stroked A John Deere with a brand new Marine battery, wouldn't even turn it over. I had a spare battery so I let him use it and everything was just fine.

Best thing about it, he's turned out to be a very good friend.

Jim

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Larry59

02-18-2008 16:05:31

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Re:JOSE - Your right on cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

They do make a South and North battrie. Some are stamped S or N on battier. Found this out from Wall Marts when I had and South battire that would not stand up in the cold very well. Had to get a N to work correct. Funny thing is the man at walmarts said it's not something they tell the public about. humm wonder why?

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El Toro

02-18-2008 09:24:31

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

I get mine from Walmart. I have 3 in use now and they're around 6 years old. Hal
PS: I use the batteries with the 3 year free replacement cost is about $75.00 now.

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IH2444

02-18-2008 10:01:54

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to El Toro, 02-18-2008 09:24:31

I have been buying all my batteries from Wally world for 7 years now and no complaints yet.

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bradk

02-18-2008 10:34:59

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to IH2444, 02-18-2008 10:01:54

I used to get Wal-Mart's batteries,but I think they changed suppliers.Have a differnt look.Last couple I bought recently were duds,and got the run around when I wanted my money back.

I get mine from Autozone.Named Consumer Reports "BEST BUY) for battery reliability and warranty.

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IH2444

02-18-2008 12:13:14

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to bradk, 02-18-2008 10:34:59

One reason I get tires and batteries at Wally world its that wally world is everywhere and every one of them will take care of me if I have any problems. Not so with local tire company XXX.

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jose bagge

02-18-2008 12:02:51

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to bradk, 02-18-2008 10:34:59

Autozone's batteries are Exide's, just like WalMart's and most every one else's. Sears are produced by JCI, same as Interstate. There's only 3 real automotive Battery manufacturer's in the US- Johnson Controls (JCI), Exide and Delco.
JCI is just about at capacity with Sears and Interstate, Delco just about at capacity with all of GM, and Exide has everything else (both retail and all other domestic OE). In my experience, best all around is anything produced by JCI- but Exide is found everywhere and while your retailer may suck Exide themselves stands tall by every returned battery.
As an industry, battery failure rates within warranty are around 15%...pretty dog-gone high regardless of manufacturer.

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TomTex

02-18-2008 19:29:17

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to jose bagge, 02-18-2008 12:02:51

There is another company, East Penn Manufacturing. They make Deka, and others like O'Reilly Auto Parts batteries. I have a Deka in my 1998 Miller Bobcat welder with 18 Kohler Pro engine. Still works fine, gives good spin, no corrode problems, no water adding caps at all, completely sealed. Tom

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kyle in ny

02-18-2008 08:39:11

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Thanks to all in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

Im out to get a new battery.

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jose bagge

02-18-2008 08:26:17

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

Did many of you folks know that battery manufacturers make a "North" version and a 'South" version of just about every battery they sell? North versions designed for hard-core cold starts....South versions designed to slow the chemical reaction in high heat.
So- if you have a summer home, figure where to buy your battery! Batteries- heat kills 'em, we just don't find out about it until it gets cold!

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John T

02-18-2008 08:14:02

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

Kyle, Provided its not too big to fit, Id recommend at least 800 CCA but prefer one in the 1000 to 1000 CCA range for cold weather starts. I would NOT use a deep cycle marine/rv battery in that situation, they are desgined more for a longgggg g low amp deeper discharge while a car battery is designed more for a short sudden high amp discharge to get you started.....

John T retired electrical engineer

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jose bagge

02-18-2008 08:09:04

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kEY WORDS: MARINE DEEP CYCLE! in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

The Marine Deep Cycle is the problem....it has amps but not cold cranking amps!. Marine "Deep Cycles" are designed to provide long, continuous power- get that trolling motor out all around the lake, all day long- not designed dump max power all at once, and not designed for cold starts. You need a STARTING BATTERY, not a DEEP CYCLE. Even for Marine applications, there are TWO batteries available- STARTING BATTERIES to fire 'em up, and DEEP CYCLE to run accessories.
Like a Motor Home- one to fire it up (in the engine compartment) and a Deep Cycle for the coach lights, etc.
Get rid of the DEEP CYCLE, and if space ain't an issue put a Group 65 battery in there that will have about 775 bona fide COLD CRANKING AMPS (CCA). Should fire that mutha right up!

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RobMD

02-18-2008 08:36:52

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Re: kEY WORDS: MARINE DEEP CYCLE! in reply to jose bagge, 02-18-2008 08:09:04

i agree. Marine cycle batteries are long lasting, but only because they don't exert as many cca's.

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dave2

02-18-2008 07:53:17

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

Could be that you are't getting enough to charge that much battery. See what kind of amps you are getting and maybe try a smaller battery. Or hook the one you have up to a charger every now and then.

Dave

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buickanddeere

02-18-2008 09:35:22

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to dave2, 02-18-2008 07:53:17

Quote "maybe try a smaller battery" Unquote. ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? A smaller battery is not the answer to starting problems. A point raised about low charge is valid. If the generator isn't set to 13.8V summer or 14.2V winter. Or if the tractor is shut off every time to open, then close a gate or door. The battery will never get charged up. What size are the battery cables and what are they connected to?

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Bill(Wis)

02-18-2008 07:52:12

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

Turning the crank is essential to getting started but so is spark. (Fuel+air+ignition=fire) Do you have spark between the sparkplug electrodes? OK. What color is it? Bluish white is the only color spark that will start that engine in that kind of weather. It'll start just fine all summer long on orange spark but it won't so much as cough in the winter. Think Condenser. Why are you using a marine battery in a tractor? Why would anyone use a car battery in a tractor? Tractor batteries are everywhere. They're designed for tractors. Get the best and strongest. Hint. John Deere.

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kyle in ny

02-18-2008 08:27:47

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Sorry bill, RED is where its at in reply to Bill(Wis), 02-18-2008 07:52:12

I"ll never go green

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1936

02-18-2008 07:15:34

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

I will buy only the largest CCA number out their for my vehicles cause they had to start day or night for work and never got caught with a no start. A whief of starter fuild and 5 weight oil will help.

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IH2444

02-18-2008 07:11:01

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to kyle in ny, 02-18-2008 07:05:47

I use a regular el cheapo about 800 CCA automotive type battery on my 2444. Works fine down to about 10. I think that is the lowest I temp I have started it at.

What weight oil do you have in it ? I run 15W40 Dello in mine.

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kyle in ny

02-18-2008 07:14:22

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Re: Could it be because of hydro? in reply to IH2444, 02-18-2008 07:11:01

I run rotella 15-40. I also have a seperate front pump for the bucket. could this make it harder to start?

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IH2444

02-18-2008 07:12:46

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to IH2444, 02-18-2008 07:11:01

Also are you sure your system is charging right ? Mine got sluggish once and it turned out to be the Voltage Regulator was only charging at a bit over 12V.

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kyle in ny

02-18-2008 07:15:38

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Re: cold cranking amps in reply to IH2444, 02-18-2008 07:12:46

This is my first winter with it. I had no issues all summer.

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