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Crooked judges?

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135 Fan

04-15-2008 19:44:16

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A little while ago on another forum, people were discussing dislikes/likes about engineers. What about judges? I'm involved in a dispute and had a pre-trial conference today. It's informal and nothing said can be used in court. The purpose is to see if a trial can be avoided. The other side showed up with a new lawyer that appeared to know the judge. I did not have a lawyer but did initially to access my claim. Small claims is supposed to be for people to represent themselfs if they choose. I was given no respect at all and it was very one sided. The judge is even trying to issue an order for me to produce information that was not even mentioned at all in the dispute note. It was like he was acting as the lawyer for the other side and trying to intimidate me. The other side made claims of repeated phone calls to myself in the dispute note and in order to get in-coming phone records, I was told I need a court order by the phone company. The judge wouldn't do it. He asked if the other side could do it as he claimed he's never heard of that before! This is after he looked to make sure it was in the dispute note. The lawyer for the other side obviously didn't think it was important, but it is. I already have my phone records to the other side. Anyway, after I got home, I called the law firm that I had dealt with and the lawyer there said the judge was out of line! He said under section 34 of the court act;"34(1) At a hearing, the parties are confined to the particulars set out in the civil claim and the dispute note." There was not one word of what he wanted me to provide and therefore is inadmissible in court. The lawyer I called asked who the judge was and then said he's a crusty old bugger thats been there forever. A pre trial judge cannot be the same judge for the trial which is good but what the heck do you do when a judge, of all people, doesn't even know the rules of the court? No wonder the legal system gets critisized so much. What do you do in a case like this? The judge won't give me a court order for something in the claim/dispute but wants to give the other side a court order for something that is inadmissible at a hearing! Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? Wow! Dave

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WantACaseLASomeday

04-16-2008 20:10:44

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to NE IA, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

As a retired cop I have a couple of decades worth of experience with the courts.
Rule 1, do anything and everything you can (without giving up your self-respect) to stay out of court in the first place. Rule 2, never go to court without a lawyer. "They" say it isn't required in small claims but "they" will shaft you every time. Rule 3, judges know the law very well but just feel they can do as they please in defiance of the law because, as a practical matter, there is nothing you can do about it.
The sidebar conversation was correct - they are there to provide a solution. Not necessarily the right or just solution, just a solution. To expect anything more is naive. Not your fault you didn't know - but now you do so either settle the case or get a lawyer. Either way you should be prepared to bend over. That's just the way civil court works.

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Coffee Helps

04-16-2008 17:44:54

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Right off, I'd say if the other side has a lawyer and you do not, that puts you at a disadvantage right off the bat. There's an old saying to the effect, "don't represent yourself," but it's worded differently. You know it costs big $$$$$$$ to get legal representation. What if you lose, do you have to pay Court costs, etc.? Oh, I suspect the high-priced law firm lawyers will get best results, but don't know for sure. My $.02.

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Mr. Bob

04-16-2008 09:45:43

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

I personally know of a judge, who, some years ago, slipped out the side door of the courtroom while a trial he was presiding over, was at recess, and talked quietly to a jury member. Neither he, nor the jury member were aware that someone saw them. That "someone" was me. At first I couldn't beleive my eyes. He was also alleged to have a person under his bench performing "nasty" acts, while he heard cases. The person performing these "acts" bragged about it Judges; corrupt; crooked; REALLY!! LOL

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El Toro

04-16-2008 16:25:27

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to Mr. Bob, 04-16-2008 09:45:43

I heard that on TV about a judge having someone under the bench and weird noise's coming from the bench. Hal

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El Toro

04-16-2008 08:37:15

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

I think my nephew ran into one those judge's when he had a suit filed against a major food store. He didn't have a lawyer and the food store came with all their artillery of lawyers and it was decided before he arrived at the Federal courthouse. It makes you wonder if some payoff took place. Hal

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135 Fan

04-16-2008 09:32:29

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to El Toro, 04-16-2008 08:37:15

Exactly!!! Dave

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soundguy

04-16-2008 07:15:06

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Crooked judges? .. isn't that almost an oxy-moron.. kinda like jumbo-shrimp, military intelegence.. etc..

soundguy

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1936

04-16-2008 07:05:48

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Judges are elected officials so where to you think they come up with cash to run for an elected officer of the court in Illinois?

Ones who live in Illinois may remember "gay lord" sting on the Chicago judges and the groupies around him. Once had a cop tell me before gay lord that it cost hime 60 K to beat a fed rap. 30K to the lawyer and 30 K for the judge. He saved his pension.

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Jerry L /AZ

04-16-2008 05:14:47

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Oh the judge knows the rules, He just does not want to play by them , besides who is going to slap his wrist for not playing fair!!!! Just my nickle Jer

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Kestrel in CT

04-16-2008 05:08:24

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Dave, See if your state's court administration office has a judicial conduct bureau. Everyone is accountable to someone-even judges.

When I was in law enforcement field (in NYS), we filed complaints with them whenever we felt there was a blatant procedural abuse by the judge.

It worked. They would investigate the judge's action and he would be either cleared, reprimanded or worse.

Judicial ethics can be serious stuff these days. Good luck..... you may have nothing to lose.

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Vern-MI

04-16-2008 04:31:06

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Lawyers and judges have seats in our government and run the country using our money. If they need more money they simply raise a tax or find some new thing to tax and we pay and pay and pay. They like to be respected and loved for their Robbin Hood use of tax dollars and are therefore voted in by the people who have little to loose and much to gain.

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MarkB_MI

04-16-2008 03:00:01

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

It sounds like you are the plaintiff in this case. I believe the way small claims works in most states is that the defendant may retain a lawyer if they choose to do so.

Remember, the burden of proof is on you, the plaintiff. As far as the judge and the defendants being cronies, that is quite possible. That's a risk you take when you go to court. You chose to sue them, not the other way around. You can hardly blame the defendant for doing every thing they can to sway the court in their favor.

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super99

04-16-2008 01:28:45

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

So, When you go into vote, and there are judges on the ballot, do you vote to retain all of them, or dismiss? I vote to dismiss them all, unless there is one that I have heard praise from local media about. Trouble is, you seldom know their record, throw them all out and get new ones. Chris

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2x4

04-15-2008 23:42:05

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

this is the way things usually operate in any court. The only fair trial you will ever see will be on TV.

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ispud

04-15-2008 22:47:16

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

They don't call them BLOOD SUCKERS for nothing!

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old timer in ohio

04-15-2008 21:57:04

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Hey there;
Some time back(36yrs),my son's were involved in a tragic accident. They were 14 and 12 yrs old, I had to get an attorney. I had to get a loan to
pay his fee, I didn't have the cash at the time of the preliminary hearing. My attorney told the judge "Mr Green (money) was not available to testify" We got a postponement, money talks BS walks.
Bob
God Bless

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kyhayman

04-15-2008 21:29:48

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Hiring an attorney is the best money you will ever waste. The legal system is a closed club, hiring an attorney is the price of admission. Its not right, its not fair, but without one you just dont stand a chance.

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dave guest

04-15-2008 21:15:11

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Long time ago I went to small claims suing a man for cheating me on air conditioning job, like $500 for no results but 3 days use. The man came out of the judges chambers with him laughing. The judge said who in the world needs air conditioning in a car, anyhow? Judge told me to pay him more money and he would fix the problem. Newly installed compressor actually disintegrated, valves and all. Another was landlord tenant court, judge yelled at defendant for admitting she owed me 4 months rent. Told her if she had kept quiet, she wouldn't have to pay.

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NEsota

04-15-2008 21:09:34

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

I attended a trail where at a side-bar, with the opposing attorneys; the judge told them he was not there to do justice but to settle the case. Me thinks he is not the only judge to think this way. If you insist on representing yourself, you are pi$$ing up a rope. The same may be true with representation but you will never know unless you hire an attorney.

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Ray

04-15-2008 20:43:02

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

My sister died leaving a 1.5 million dollar estate.I was her next of kin,she never had any children.I was appointed administrator of her estate then kicked out 9 months later when some step kids that she had never met from her husbands first marriage filed a complaint with
the court to have me removed.We were supposed to go to court to fight it out when the judge threw it out of court and I didn't get anything.The original judge that was supposed to hear the case was removed because he was caught with a hooker in his chambers.

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Gun guru

04-16-2008 02:24:45

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to Ray, 04-15-2008 20:43:02

You should have spent some of the money right away on equities for yourself, and not easily saleable so that losers wouldnt get the money.

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Bob Huntress

04-15-2008 20:14:34

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

Remember that Judges are laywers. They all know each other, and it's not plausible to expect that they are not all members of the same country clubs. They went to law school togather, and when they see each other in court, I am sure they already know how things are going to end. They are a tight community that has no regard for the law. The law is how a judge wakes up the morning of your hearing. I truely feel that if there were not two opposite camps of people being oppressed by our legal system, that there would be an armed revolt against our leaders. Our courts only confirm the status quo, and argue their decisions with complete absence of law. Regardless of the poor judgement that went into a judical decision, it is repeated as precidence in an ever downward spiral, as a bad decision today is cited as grounds for a worse one tomorrow.

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Bob Huntress

04-15-2008 20:18:56

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to Bob Huntress, 04-15-2008 20:14:34

By the way, half the blame goes to those who write the laws. Everyday more freedoms are surrendered to protect this interest or that.

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mechanic fred

04-15-2008 20:06:18

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

to be a judge you have to be a lawyer. I spent 14000.00$ to have a BS charge against me tossed out. I'm a firm beleiver your guilty till you spend enough money to prove your innocent!

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135 Fan

04-15-2008 20:17:38

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to mechanic fred, 04-15-2008 20:06:18

With me it's the other way around. The company I'm in a dispute with is clearly in the wrong but I need a lawyer because this stupid judge is basically discrediting everything I brought up, and even tried to on a very important issue of who phoned who. I'm not afraid to go to court but lawyers don't come cheap. I shouldn't need one but after today, this judge certainly didn't give me much hope for justice. It's not over till it's over. It's important to me and I'm not going to run away with my tail between my legs. I trial shouldn't be decided by who spends more on a lawyer. Dave

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ericlb

04-15-2008 19:57:07

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

request a change of venue, and ask that a judge in a different district or higher court hear the case, your lawyer should be able to do this, it happens a lot where i live the judges, cops and local politicians with a few exceptions, are all corrupt and for sale to the highest bidder,theres no way justice can be served that way the other guy has the trial bought and paid for before you even get in there

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strawbale

04-15-2008 19:56:14

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Re: Crooked judges? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-15-2008 19:44:16

my vehicle was hit and run, i was not in it but had 2 witness, police told me to turn it in to my insurance and forget about it. i said wrong. police let to much time go by to charge the guy. a year later it went to a a judge trial, was cancelled twice at last minute one because of other idiots lawyer and the second time because the judge said he did not want to make a extra trip to court for just this. my witness showed up twice , nobody told them the trial was delayed, they finally said screw it and never showed up when the trial took place, the other guy lied terrible and i got screwed, i think there is alot of under the table crap that goes on between lawyers and judges

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