buickand deere ....Yes You Sir ELEC

Mel..It is nice You mention the great Smokey Yunich....Combat Bomber pilot...raced at Indy...Possibly first Heli Arc...Nemesis to France Sr....So many things....How do You know Smokey wasn't workin on mileage carburation???? With all respect Sir , do You have acsess to His notes and writein's

Wild Bill

Jim

Lot"s of people come on this forum to get away from their everyday life for awhile. I can"t for the life of me understand why so many people want to get their kicks making snide remarks and just plain being mean to a guy who has an IDEA?? I"ve read all of the post from all three topics, the guy is not married to the IDEA it"s just that, an IDEA. Of course perpetual motion can"t happen!!! Not everybody is versed in basic science. Instead of ripping the guy explain the error in thinking but DO IT IN A NICE WAY!!!!

Sometimes the pursuit of impossible ideas leads to actually useful stuff. Maybe the 5th wheel camper could use regenerative braking to charge the on board batteries that supply the lights when the generator is not hooked up????? I"m sure someone will come on here and tell me how dumb I am for suggesting that and why it won"t work, whoever does it make sure you insult my intelligence and call me a name. "Course they wont have a better idea, probably talk trash about my spelling too. This whole entire county has forgot what it means to have an idea and to be neighborly. Nobody wants to think, they want to complain and throw rocks at other people cause it makes them feel good and it requires very little work.

I lurk here a whole more than I post, I got started on the site several years ago cause it was relaxing. Lately every time I log on I get torqued off at the total lack of respect for other people. Bet this site has lost a lot of lurkers and regulars cause of this junk. Oh well

The 5th wheel idea presented by our resident "Crackpotus Americanus" is not a 5th wheel trailer. CA wants to drag this 5th wheel behind the vehicle and drive at all times a permanent magnet generator. With the belief that the dragged generator will make more power than what it requires to drag it. Now but..... ..... ... If this 5th wheel is used exactly the way the clueless engineers do with the hybrid vehicles. Where the generator is used only when the vehicle is requiring braking. Then yes a portion of the vehicles kinetic energy can be converted to mechanical, electrical then stored as potential chemical energy in a battery. This post shows the sad state of the western education system. If Japanese junior school students were to read CA's and trucker40's remarks.They would giggle then laught at the fat stupid westerners.

You ask why an engineer would not have any patience for perpetual motion kooks. One reason is that you guys have spent exactly zero time trying to understand the principles that you're so quick to dismiss. If you want to be treated as a equal, try this: Sit through two or three college-level thermodynamics courses. Of course you'll first have to take a couple of years of calculus prerequisites before you can take the thermo. Better yet, after you've done your college work, spend a lifetime putting your thermo knowledge to practical application. Do that, and maybe someone will listen when you say it's all bunk.

It doesn't help your case that your posts are filled with the bizarre capitalization, punctuation and sentence structure that are the earmarks of Crackpotus americanus. (A species that, unfortunately, is not endangered.) Why is it that you kooks all use the same goofy grammar? You must have all read the same book: How to Write So You Sound Like a Complete Lunatic.

You reference Nicola Tesla, but Tesla was a trained engineer and understood thermodynamics very well. Tesla combined an almost innate understanding of physics with a spark of inspiration that allowed him to find practical applications to his scientific knowledge. He did not ignore physics, but rather exploited it. His most lasting legacy, polyphase power, isn't based on black magic or crackpot theories, but rather sound engineering principles.

That said, I do enjoy these discussions between the perpetual motion kooks and the engineers. No doubt Minnesota Joe will chime in any minute with his theories about Satan Claus.

Wild Bill

Electric generators are not real efficient. Like an alternator - they waste a lot of energy as heat.

You drag one on a wheel, and it will use energy to do so. Makes sense, right? Gotta put energy into the wheel to make it go around, to make the alternator go around?

So, you lose energy doing this while you are powering the car to go forward.

The only time you can gain any power is when you are trying to slow the car. Then any energy the alternator makes will also be slowing the car down. Won't heat the brakes quite as much, will power up the alternator some.

But here's the rub: You need to carry the extra wheel, alternator, and control devices with you all the time. So your car will weigh more. A heavier car takes more fuel to drive around.

And, braking is a big use of energy - you need a pretty big alternator & big power cables & such to capture a whole lot of energy in a short period of time. The nature of braking - a little whimpy alternator or generator won't do it - needs to be big & beefy.

So, the contraption will be kinda heavy.

Now, the question is, will you capture enough energy back into a battery while braking, to make up for the extra energy you need to get moving again with the extra weight of the alternator & all the controls & such?

Will the thing give you more back than what it uses while riding along?

A whole lot of research has been done on this in electric & hybred vehicles, and some use it. But it is not easy, or free, energy. You really have to design it out carefully, and it only gives back a tiny little bit more than it uses.

Make sense? If not, why not? What part do you disagree with?

--->Paul

For the record, I worked my way through college, and I constructed plenty of buildings in the process. I can't say I ever learned to weld overhead, but I sure never looked down on a welder.

Good luck with your perpetual motion machine. Guys have been trying to build one for a few hundred years, maybe you'll be the one to pull it off.

What you are proposing is, more or less, a type of perpetual motion machine, and those are usually thought of in the realm of crackpots.

buickanddeere has been around here for 10 years plus, I've known who he is for at least eight of those years as have many other folks. He's not some fly by nighter that posts every 18 months, just taking wild stabs at folks. For the most part he knows his stuff, little heavy on Deere but we can't fault him for that. All around good discussion man. I have to think you're over reacting.

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Where is Nomad from Turkey, he would love these threads? :)

Anyhow, how would a 5th wheel trailer hitch help your Jeep pull more efficiently? Missed that one.

--->Paul

He knew it would work, because he could spin the alternators by hand, so they did not take much power to turn.

I think of that thread from a few years ago every once in a while.... ;)

Yea, the 5th wheel thing works - if you don't add more weight & drain power with a 5th wheel. You just need to use electric motors, and while braking use that force to recharge the batteries with the 'waste' power from braking. However, those circuts add weight & expense to the vehicle, which makes it less efficent when you are not braking. Ends up a real small payoff.

A 5th wheel, eh? That's good. Maybe it could spin the alternators.....

--->Paul

Gerald J.

If an engine looses say 3 hp to run an alternator in the end it wouldn't matter what or how it is driven will still require 3 Hp

Now if you were thinking as a friction Motor system that a wheel could be lifted of the ground at stop signs and drop again as the vehicle picks speed to 5th wheel speed the electronics, Hydraulic system would be way out of my league to figure out.

I'll never say things can't be done Because a C 130 military plane according to aerodynamics Is impossible to fly.

Eisenstein had the same criticism as you but, Went on past all his criticizers and proved his worth. It's too easy to have a dream and not go for it. So If you feel it will work,keep trying.

I saw a saying on another forum a guy uses.

"I never Fail I just found 10,000 ways it don't work"

Encouragement, or not your efforts are not for vain. If it won't work you still can try something else.

Zeroth law
Zeroth law of thermodynamics
If two thermodynamic systems are each in thermal equilibrium with a third, then they are in thermal equilibrium with each other.
When two systems are put in contact with each other, there will be a net exchange of energy between them unless or until they are in thermal equilibrium, that is, they are at the same temperature. While this is a fundamental concept of thermodynamics, the need to state it explicitly as a law was not perceived until the first third of the 20th century, long after the first three laws were already widely in use, hence the zero numbering. The Zeroth Law asserts that thermal equilibrium, viewed as a binary relation, is an equivalence relation.

First Law of Thermodynamics
The first law of thermodynamics is often called the Law of Conservation of Energy. This law suggests that energy can be transferred from one system to another in many forms. Also, it can not be created or destroyed. Thus, the total amount of energy available in the Universe is constant. Einstein's famous equation (written below) describes the relationship between energy and matter:
E = mc2 In the equation above, energy (E) is equal to matter (m) times the square of a constant (c). Einstein suggested that energy and matter are interchangeable. His equation also suggests that the quantity of energy and matter in the Universe is fixed.

Second Law of Thermodynamics
Heat cannot be transfer from a colder to a hotter body. As a result of this fact of thermodynamics, natural processes that involve energy transfer must have one direction, and all natural processes are irreversible. This law also predicts that the entropy of an isolated system always increases with time. Entropy is the measure of the disorder or randomness of energy and matter in a system. Because of the second law of thermodynamics both energy and matter in the Universe are becoming less useful as time goes on. Perfect order in the Universe occurred the instance after the Big Bang when energy and matter and all of the forces of the Universe were unified.

Third Law of Thermodynamics
The third law of thermodynamics states that if all the thermal motion of molecules (kinetic energy) could be removed, a state called absolute zero would occur. Absolute zero results in a temperature of 0 Kelvins or -273.15° Celsius.
Absolute Zero = 0 Kelvins = -273.15° Celsius
The Universe will attain absolute zero when all energy and matter is randomly distributed across space. The current temperature of empty space in the Universe is about 2.7 Kelvins.

Don't you think it would be reasonable to give proper attribution to the source of the plagerized thermodynamics text in your post. I am not checking but I assume it came from Wikipedia.

Some people might erroneously think you can write.

On the whole, I don't have a problem with your position. I think that fruit-loops and nut-cases should be discouraged from posting. Why should we tolerate misinformation and shoddy thinking on this board?

Thermodynamics you are quoting - way over the top! If he can't grasp the simple, obvious practical considerations of the idea - which shout loud and clear that it is a non starter - how will he ever understand even a teeny bit of thermodynamics?

BTW Doesn't everyone leave their fridge door open, in the summer months, to cool the room? Best idea I've heard for a while (chuckle).

Regards, RAB

And with that said I have never liked that term "DUDE"

Wild Bill

Wild Bill

Wild Bill