Re: Pole Barn Posts

Posted by Billy NY on April 11, 2012 at 11:31:50 from (67.248.100.3):

In Reply to: Re: Pole Barn Posts posted by 641Dave on April 11, 2012 at 10:14:32:

That is an interesting question, I'd be curious to see what a concrete batch plant would respond with.

I did some brief reading on their site and I did price these a few years ago when we rebuilt a section of one of our barns, so I'm a little familiar with them.

Given that their mix design(perma column) and subsequent resultant material, being a column of that strength concrete, there has to be a reason for it, and I would have to assume that the requirement is based on the type of component it is, a column and the forces at work on a column being used in the applications shown, designed etc. there has to be a good reason for the material to be that strength and reinforced as they specify, to insure they do not fail.

Common sense applies here, if you look at the dimensions of the concrete column, consider compression,shear, and moment forces at work, it would probably cause (say 4000 PSI concrete) column to fail under the loads imposed, the column size is small, at those dimensions, it must calculate out to require that strong of a concrete to perform in the application shown. If you look on their website, see the photo where they are testing the wood portion of the column in shear, measuring deflection, possibly until failure if I interpret what I am seeing correctly. I'm not a licensed P.E. but dealt with this stuff for many years in high rise construction. There is obviously 3 aspects of the column, the wood, the reinforced concrete and the steel connection, all of which need to perform to meet a design criteria to sustain a load imposed by the other building components, wind shear and whatever else I'm missing.

So to get back to the question, the material called for is likely a specialty material, which they create in house, a concrete supplier would likely not be interested in providing such a small quantity of a high performance material unless the quantities required were substantial, and are profitable. Even if so, to have it made up and delivered dry, we get back into the discussion on here yesterday about using aged material, that can have questionable results.

Now, I do not know about trademarks, patents, copyrights etc. as it applies to a product you want to replicate. I do however like where you are going with it,considering what you want to do, which can be cost effective sometimes, a kind of value engineering if you will. I suspect the cost of these components has a lot to do with engineering they had to do to create the column, the cost of that particular concrete design mix and or related things, in addition to being a unique component and the desire to be a profitable mfr. of same.

I'm thinking to achieve the same strengths, with lower PSI concrete the column size is going to grow substantially to get the same performance.

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