Re: Slow moving tractors and horses warning sign

Posted by Bret4207 on October 30, 2013 at 10:35:51 from (64.19.90.196):

In Reply to: Slow moving tractors and horses warning sign posted by Rich_WI on October 29, 2013 at 19:21:21:

Rich_WI said: (quoted from post at 19:21:21 10/29/13) Bret4207 said: (quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) Rich, I live an a very heavily Amish area and I hear the same complaints about the roads. There is no way under Gods blue sky that an 800 lbs horse and 400 lbs buggy do anywhere near the damage to the road an 80K lbs tractor-trailer do, or a 40K tractor and 12K gallon liquid manure spreader.[/quote:3509484537] Well compairing apples to oranges you would be correct but when thinking critically about it, no, you are not correct. For example, the 80K trucks dont ever come down the rural roads that the Amish run so how can you compair them? Simple, you cant. But if you look at the better built roads that the trucks run vs. the township roads, you can easily see the heavier damage from the horses and buggies. Fair compairison? Not really because everybody knows the main roads are built heavier but would there still be damage from the horses if they did run them? Of course there would and we know that because we see it where the horses cross the main roads, the damage goes through the intersections. But like I said, not a fair compairison because if you flipped the use, the rural road would get messed up from the heavy truck more than the horse wrecking the main road. The difference is, the truck paid taxes that pays for the roads.... Happens here all the time Rich, the culverts I mean, And the 65-80K trucks are going up and down County and Town roads and we have to add in the the trucks with permits for 102-107K are using some of those roads too. What you see on the roads, at least what we see here, is scuff marks from the shoes and steel wheels. That's the damage. Bret4207 said: (quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) The farmer doesn't pay any road taxes for that articulated tractor that tears up the pavement or crushes culverts [/quote:3509484537] I admit I dont get out much, I only put 20,000 miles a year on my work truck and 5,000-10,000 miles on my motorcycles. Call me a homebody if you must but I have to say, I have never, EVER seen anything like you discribe. I have seen the blacktop damaged on the edge of the road when a tractor (normal tractor, not even a huge articulated one) drove on the edge of the road before the shoulder was put in or from turning off the road into a field. The road damaged on the edge is very rare and from a farmer driveing on it before the road was done, thats his fault. As for going into a field, that damage is expected and now the county puts in approaches to prevent it. Crushed culverts? Puhleese, never seen one. So with that in mind, we can simply set aside your assertions. Refer to para above on the culverts. The State just had to do a 3 mile repair near me on a State road strictly because of what I'm talking about- BTO with equipment tearing up the road. Just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it's not common up here. So with that in mind, we can simply set aside your assertions. Bret4207 said: (quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) and they darn sure don't go out and scrape the 4" of liquid manure and mud off the highway where they exit the fields. [/quote:3509484537] Oh yes they do. If they dont, they county sends a crew out and does it and sends a bill. The sheriff warns them first though, its not like the county has a crew sitting at the shop waiting for a call so they can boost revenue, they really dont want to do it at all but some times they have to. I learned that lesson way back in high school when some friends were mud bogging after school every day and we got a little visit from Barny Fife and he made sure we knew exactally where the bear does his buisness in the woods. As for the liquid manure, if farmer ever has 4 inches of slop on the road, he has bigger things to worry about than paying for the bobcat time, he is gonna be getting a visit from the alphabet people and they will be sampling ditches and water runoff. He wont have to worry long though, he will be out of business soon. Well, at least without an insurance carrier after that massive payout. Again, and remember I've been tasked with forcing farmers to clean their crap up, it happens here all the time. Nobody gets billed for the clean up here. At worst they get a ticket which is dismissed at court. It's like pulling teeth to get the BTOs to do anything about their mud and manure. Bret4207 said: (quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) I know some people just get all riled up about the Amish not having to license their buggies and wagons, but if you want to go that route then you'd better stand by to find a law saying you have to license and register all our farm tractors and implements. [/quote:3509484537] While I not big on making laws just to make them, in fact Im heavily against it but in this case, if its felt that its fair for everybody that if the Amish starting kicking in a fair share for the roads they use and abuse, I wouldnt have a huge problem with making farmers doing the same thing for tractors and impliments. The only small problem is, farmers have case history of being allowed to use the roads for farming needs, just using the roads for travel has always been a "pay to play" deal. Like I said though, if the farmers have to kick in to make things fair because the Amish start paying, Im OK with that. Wow, so more taxes are the answer? Bret4207 said: (quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) Maybe it would be better to look around and figure out how much the Amish are paying in school taxes for schools they never use or in land taxes for social services and other taxpayer funded services they never make use of, all while taking over and putting back into production marginal farm land the English can't make a living off of. Oh, this is my favorite, the old "taxes ala-carte" arguement. Count me in! I would love, Love, LOVEEEEE to only pay taxes on the services that I use. No arguement from me, of course thats not what we are talking about (or were). We are talking about the taxes that Amish dont pay, that was the question on the table and I clearly stated it (if I do say so myself). It's directly related to what you're talking about. You say the Amish, or me and my horses for that matter, should have to pay a road tax, to pay for the up keep of the roads. Of course you forget that the registration and licensing fees don't come anywhere near even close to paying the interest on what it costs to maintain the roads. That money comes out of the general fund just like everything else. If we were depending on license and registration fees to pay for our highways we'd all be driving on dirt. The only taxes I'm seeing the Amish not pay related to this discussion is registration fees, which is a tax so to speak. [quote:3509484537="Bret4207"](quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) Amish aren't saints and they aren't evil either. I dont disagree with that, no different than the English. [quote:3509484537="Bret4207"](quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) They're just people with a little different lifestyle Again, I agree. [quote:3509484537="Bret4207"](quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) that isn't hurting anyone else, unlike some English that are most certainly hurting other folks. And there you go, off the deep end.... Everybody knows you are an Amish apologist but you dont have to make it sound like the Amish do nothing wrong and harm nobody because its just not true. You also dont have to make it sould like the English are the only ones that hurt others, because it also is just not true. We dont need to get into all the crimes and ethics issues that the Amish not only let happen but seemingly approve of, do we? Are the Amish trying to make laws restricting our rights? Are the Amish demanding our schools change or that we be taxed to support se x changes for inmates or that we do away with cars, oil, guns, Christianity? Are the Amish actually affecting you one little bit or are they just an irritant because they don't drive $60K F350's and hang out at the bar trying to pick up local ho's? That's the kind of hurt I'm taking about. Hurting our society. [quote:3509484537="Bret4207"](quoted from post at 06:26:58 10/29/13) It comes down to bigotry and people need to see that. Ironic you say that given the context of your post....

[b:3509484537][/b:3509484537]

Well, I guess you'd be real familiar with what a bigot is....

ETA- I'd just like to say that I've seen people do things tot he Amish that would result in Federal charges and arrest if they were black, hispanic or asian. I don't know if that makes me an apologist, but when you have to follow Amish kids to and from school in Troop car to keep the hairy chested bigots from shooting near them or flinging beer bottles at them or stuff like that it kind of gives you a bad taste for the kind of small people that will only pick on those who don't fight back.

This post was edited by Bret4207 at 10:49:23 10/30/13.

Replies:

• Re: Slow moving tractors and horses warning sign Rich_WI 19:52:43 10/30/13 (0)

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