Posted by Indiana Ken on November 27, 2013 at 08:39:32 from (66.249.234.135):
In Reply to: Beat to death posted by flying belgian on November 25, 2013 at 19:31:51:
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Yes, you are correct; changing a form of energy will result in a loss. For example: 1) using coal to generate electricity will result in a loss of energy...the coal contained more heat than does the generated electricity. 2) refining a barrel of crude oil in gasoline, diesel, jet fuel etc. will result in a loss.
The confusing part is with processes that are not a simple change in form. For example: 1) a ground source heat pump can have a COE (coefficient of performance) greater than 1.0, meaning it provides more heat energy than the electrical energy used to power the heat pump. This can be true since the heat pump moves heat from the water into your home rather than changing its form. 2) corn to ethanol for use as fuel includes the energy of the sun captured by the growing corn. An energy balance (inputs versus outputs) can show a energy gain as a result of the captured energy (input) of the sun.
Now.....the confusing thing about an ethanol energy balance is that there is no agreed to standard of how the energy balance analysis is conducted. One analysis may use 120 bu/acre for corn yield another may use 200 bu/acre. The ethanol yield used may be 2.5 gal/bu while another may use 3.0 gal/bu. Some include the value of the DDGs while another anaylsis does not. As a result the energy balance can lead to very different conlusions.
One may say, "well this is completely goofy, we should have a standard". For example: in years past it was common for the auto companies to dyno test their engines without, air filters, alternator, water pump, cooling fan, an exhaust system. As a result the horsepower advertised was much different than what the engine actually produced in your car. Now there are standards, called J codes, which specify exactly how the test is to be performed.
Until we have a standard for an "ethanol energy balance" one needs to look at the details to understand the input/outputs used for the analysis.
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