Re: Sand or gravel around pole barn poles?

Posted by UP Oliver on September 14, 2014 at 08:15:31 from (68.70.134.87):

In Reply to: Sand or gravel around pole barn poles? posted by UP Oliver on September 13, 2014 at 20:04:20:

Thanks for all the responses, here is some more information.

First of all, my concern is with the poles being gripped by frozen soil and being lifted up. I have 3 ply laminated poles from a supplier in Wisconsin; they have been treated for in ground contact.

When I started this whole project, I put a test hole down to about 5 feet and did not have any water in the hole. The soil was seemed like what I would call silty clay. It was damp, but did not come out in clumps. Both the building inspector in my county and the experienced contractor that has put up pole barns in my area and now works for the building supply store advised me to put the original dirt back in the hole. The inspector has not seen my site, the experienced contractor has. This guy is really nice and very helpful.

Since I did not hit any water (in August of a fairly wet summer) I assume that the site is OK in that regard and once it is done and graded that I should not have problems with wet soil or soil heaving my poles. But my problem is with what has happened with the weather since I started.

I have put 17 holes in the ground (out of 46) and they all had two 80 pound bags of quikrete put in there wet, then tapped flat. The pole goes on the concrete when it has set. The bottom of the concrete in these holes will be 56 to 60 inches below the finished grade. Code is 42 inches.

I have 11 poles in with 3 or 4 rows of girts, and the poles are braced. We had 3 inches of rain here Wednesday, and then temps in the 50's, frost a couple nights, since then. Not good drying weather. So I pumped a bunch of water out of there; I had stripped the topsoil out so the area was a little lower than the surrounding ground. The six holes without poles were full of water. The rain went in along my poles that are installed and created a bunch of muck in some of the holes. It was the same soil that came out of the hole, and I tamped it with a 4 x 4 after every 6 inches of fill. I am worried that this muck will not dry out really well and freeze in December and lift the pole. I could probably dig that soil out by hand for all the poles in a few hours, and I would rather do that now after 11 poles instead of after 46 poles.

In the coldest part of winter, there will be a lot of snow around the outside of the building and the dirt under that snow will be easier to dig in then than it is in the summer. I buried our old German Shepherd on January 29th last year and had no problem digging a 3 foot hole under the snow. But the building will not be heated so the cold will be able to penetrate inside. Maybe with the warmer soil on the outside of the building the ground around the post will never freeze? A contractor friend of mine stopped by last night and suggested putting a piece of rigid foam insulation along the green board flat out toward in the inside of the building to prevent frost from penetrating along the poles. I thought I read somewhere about that being done in Canada.

I can put stone in around the poles, but I worry about creating a clay lined pond basically, like John in La mentioned. The sand I have here will drain well, and pack well. But if it is surrounded by clay the only benefit would be that any water would be further down in the hole away from the cold at the surface.

I have an email into the building inspector and the experienced contractor right now. When these guys get back to me I will go from there. I feel kind of bad questioning these guys about what they told me to do, but if they saw the muck in these holes I would guess they might rethink the advice.

Anyway, thanks again for the help and advice. I get the best information I need all the time from the people on this site.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post.

Replies:

• Re: Sand or gravel around pole barn poles? Russ from MN 12:02:37 09/14/14 (0)

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