Quote: JMOR (quoted from post at 17:41:32 03/14/23) [quote="docmirror"](quoted from post at 19:50:41 03/14/23) [quote="JMOR"](quoted from post at 14:07:27 03/14/23) [quote="docmirror"](quoted from post at 16:20:55 03/14/23) I'm not going to go off again because I addressed the OPs specific point about "today's oils,,, older engines".
Yes, it is a fact. Yes, it can be proven. The whole change in modern oils began around 1995-6. That was when we first saw "for use in gasoline engines only". Before those days, oils were for gas and/or diesel engines. The change came about because a small change in engine oils for autos could reduce internal friction and also protect the cats that were required to lower tailpipe emissions.
Only regarding the ZDDP additives of the time, this is when 'modern' oils began to lose this cam anti-wear additive. SJ API class was limited to 1000ppm ZDDP, starting in 1996. Prior to that, most oils had around 1200ppm, and some were higher or lower depending on the other additive package from various vendors.
After SJ was SL with another reduction, but I don't recall or have the spec. Whatever it was, it was lower than 1000. SM is 600ppm, and SN becomes complicated because the ZDDP levels are constrained by weight classification. This sort of makes sense, because modern engines using a 0-30 or 5-40 will not tolerate much ZDDP, but an SN classification with a 20-40 or 20-50 may be used in a late 90s engine needing more ZDDP. I don't know the specs on those breakdowns by vis index.
High performance engines of the late 80s and early 90s are the most exposed to the 'older engine, newer oil' failure mode of cam wiping or lifter spalling. The changes in the spec were done for the value of making the fed mandated 100,000 mile warranty on emission components of the cars. Some folks don't even know that there is a 100k miles mfg warranty of ALL emission components.
I has a 1985 Nissan pickup with 88k miles on it when the cat failed. I took it right to Nissan and told them to repl my cat for free because it failed. We argued for a while, but eventually they had to do it, because of the warranty.
So, whether one wants or doesn't want the correct range of ZDDP additive, it's fine with me. I know what to do with those older engines, and I'm sure there are plenty of empirical cases where 'my 1959 Studebaker is running just fine with new oil!' and I don't discount that. I'm sure the Studebaker 6 engine cam to lifter pressures are the same as a 7200RPM Lamborghini engine with flat tappets, and dual valve springs. Yeah - sure....
1200 or more huh? You didn't read the laboratory analysis of the ~ mid 1960s oil! ~500[/quote]
Not only didn't read it, didn't care. Had nothing to do with "modern oils", so wasn't relevant. If you find a quart of dino juice in a cylinder cardboard can, with a tin lid, you can start a thread about that.[/quote]your claim the prior to 1996 sumply is not correct. "..rting in 1996. Prior to that, most oils had around 1200ppm, a .." Blanket statements rarely are ....they become stuck incorrectly on some people's heads though & sadly get repeated.[/quote]
What link in what post has a "laboratory analysis" you are referring to? The only stuff in your post that quoted me about zinc is showing 517ppm for some C spec oil. Plus, you also cut off my quote that seems to have gotten your undergarments all wadded up. If you have a problem with the opinion I express, then do your detailed examination of it, show your direct opposition, and support it with an actual lab analysis, or something more than a difference of opinion.
So, go in depth, show me the lab reports, get the results here, find out what the actual ZDDP levels were in avail oils before 1996, and then when you get on your horse quote me exactly, and do NOT change what I wrote into what you want to see. I wrote "1200" along with "some were higher, and some were lower". That is the 'blanket statement' you disagree with? Put it up here, and lets see what you got.
This post was edited by docmirror on 03/14/2023 at 11:48 pm.
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