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Re: R-134a substitutes (automotive AC)
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Posted by Jon H on March 10, 2004 at 11:10:18 from (69.26.17.100):
In Reply to: R-134a substitutes (automotive AC) posted by Mike (WA) on March 10, 2004 at 08:13:13:
Be sure you understand what you are using when you look at an alternate refrigerant that contains hydrocarbon. Most are a blend of propane and butane and are very flamible.
The only two refrigerants recognized by the EPA as sutible are R12 (gone) and 134a..
There are 18 states (mine included) that outlaw flamible refrigerants as unsafe in mobil ac systems. I have argued with guys on this site and others about not using hydrocarbon refrigerants
as I feel they are unsafe, I had no real world experience with the stuff,so I thought I should buy a can of it and test it to separate the bull from the truth.
I opened a can of 134a and directed a stream of it at a propane torch flame,I could not make it burn or support an open flame. I repeated the test with a much hotter actelene/oxygen torch flame with the same results of no fire from 134a
I tried directing a stream of 134a into an open gasoline flame with the same results,it would not burn or increase the gasoline flame.
Next I turned the can upside down and sprayed the gasoline fire with a stream of liquid 134a. It extinguished the gasoline flame much like a halon fire extinguisher. Halon is a close relative of Freon,thats why it also was banned.
I directed a stream of 134a at a white hot chunk of steel, it would not burn Next I tried the can of hydrocarbon refrigerant. I found that the a single spark from my torch lighter would ignite the stuff into long yellow flames. The open flame of either torch would instantly light the stuff. I found that a chunk of steel heated to anything above dull red would instantly light the stuff. I directed a stream of both liquid and vapor hydrocarbon refrigerant into an open gasoline flame which caused the refrigerant to burn and made the gasoline burn wildly.
The stuff acts like what it is, propane/butane stove gas.
One thing that really disturbed me was that the particular brand of hydrocarbon refrigerant I was using had a sweet pine smell odorant added instead of the skunk like ethyl mercaptain normally used in propane.. So instead of smelling the familiar odor of propane and thinking yikes !!, I have a propane leak,one might think Hmm nice pine air freshener in this rig. Cant imagine why they would do that unless they think a propane odor from the normal small leaks most ac systems have would scare customers away.
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