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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Re: Primer under 2150

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Rod (NH)

02-23-2006 19:02:49




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Centari is available in three different field mixes:

1. Centari w/Ultra Performance Pak - This is an acrylic enamel that DuPont actually refers to as an acrylic urethane - There are isos in the activator that needs to be used with this formulation.

2. Centari w/Hardener - This is the conventional hardened acrylic enamel. There are isos in the hardener that needs to be used with this formulation.

3. Centari w/Uktra 1K Pak - This is a non-hardened acrylic enamel that does not have any isos in any of the required ingredients. This is the one you want if you want to avoid isos. The tech sheet indicates that it may be recoated anytime after 4 hours, but I have never tried it. I've used both #1 and #2 above but not the 1K Pac.

Yes, I agree, the epoxy primer such as the PPG OMNI MP170 is an excellent primer. It doesn't get any better than an epoxy primer for bare metal, in my opinion.

The 182 surfacer is a urethane product that requires an iso-containing hardener. The 181 is a lacquer-based product that does not require a hardener and is iso-free. Both are relatively fast dry but the 182 dries initially by evaporation and then cures by chemical reaction of the components. The chemical reaction is due to the presence of the hardener.The 181 doesn't rely on any chemical reaction and doesn't "cure" in that sense. It only dries by evaporation of solvents in the product. The problem that exists with the 181 that doesn't with the 182 is the possible re-emergence of sandscratches after application of the topcoat. Since the 181 doesn't cure, it is susceptable to possible re-liquification upon being exposed to solvents in the topcoat. Should the 181 be applied too dry (easy to do) it can bridge over sandscratches. After sanding and applying the topcoat, the 181 can possibly re-liquify and settle back into the sandscratches, causing them to ultimately show through the topcoat. Furthermore, if it's applied too wet, the bottom portion of the film may not be completely dry, even if the surface indicates it is. In that situation, if a topcoat is applied too soon, the 181 continues to dry and shrinks into the sandscratches, causing them to show through the topcoat. The only advantage that I see in any lacquer-based surfacer is that it is iso-free. And that's only an advantage to those w/o safe breathing equipment. The use of this type of surfacer has been almost completely replaced by urethane surfacers such as the 182 for most work nowadays. Lacquer-based products are also getting squeezed hard in some areas due to air emissions. In my area, if you buy any of the 181, you are forced to buy a gallon of MS250, a thinner based on acetone, an exempt solvent - whether you need it or not. You cannot buy just the 181 alone. Lacquer thinner could be used with the 181 but that is discouraged by air emission regulations.

The Centari is a true acrylic enamel, even in the non-iso mix. If I understand correctly, the IH2150 is an acrylic-modified alkyd enamel. While it can generally be said that an acrylic enamel is "better" than an alkyd enamel, the "acylic-modifed" hybrid tends to blur the differences. Since I have never used the IH2150, I cannot say if the Centari is truly better. It may be, but only marginally so. It does have a very long history as an excellent paint. The last time I used any was a few years ago with the #1 mix formulation above. I was very satisfied with that. I do know that Centari is now quite expensive for what it is so I would expect it to cost significantly more than the 2150. Availability of color shade match to the 2150 is also an unknown, I think. If you have trouble with a good match, you could try having a fresh 2150 application scanned and compared with DuPont's generic "SpectraMaster" colors. As far as I know, all those colors are all available in Centari. Check with your local DuPont jobber if you want to find out more. I don't think it will help you out at all with your scratch/nick issue though.

Rod

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CNKS

02-23-2006 19:17:34




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 Re: Primer under 2150 in reply to Rod (NH), 02-23-2006 19:02:49  
I hope DuPont's "Spectramaster" is better than whatever PPG calls theirs. I painted a battery cover with 2150 and had it scanned a couple of times (2150 gets somewhat darker with age). It was not even close either time, malfunction of the operator or scanner I don't know. I finally juggled the toners in the 2150 equivalent, PPG 71310, and got pretty close.



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CNKS

02-24-2006 06:10:44




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 Re: Primer under 2150 in reply to CNKS, 02-23-2006 19:17:34  
PPG may have a match at a level above the jobber, I don't know. However he admits that the color he gets is only 80% accurate, it's at least that bad. The colors that he comes up with do have names, I don't know if the computer names them or if they are existing colors, I suspect the latter. The current employee is really pretty good, unlike some of the others. I do think he tries to get the correct match, takes care of the toners etc. He does a lot of business in the Omni line. As to the orange I see in 2150/PPG 71310, it may be my eyes. Although by adjusting the amounts of two of the toners in 71310, I got rid of a little (not much) orange, there really is not a lot of difference between IH 2150 and the unmodified PPG 71310. I was led to believe that IH 2150 had no or very little orange in it -- not true, at least to my eyes. I don't think anyone really knows what the IH colors were originally, not even the manufacturer of 2150. I, personally do not believe that the "deep red" that people seem to think is correct is actually the original color. There are simply too many variables in the manufacuring process.

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Rod (NH)

02-23-2006 19:57:59




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 Re: Primer under 2150 in reply to CNKS, 02-23-2006 19:17:34  
I have never had a scan done by DuPont. It's my understanding that their SpectraMaster colors are what I would call a rainbow of colors across the spectrum that have formulas developed for them. They are separate and distinct from the typical auto manufacturer/model codes. I think (but don't know) that when you have a sample scanned, the act of scanning does not develop a custom formula by itself. Instead, it picks the closest match available in one of the predefined SpectraMaster colors. You may therefore not get a perfect match without proceeding with DuPont to develop a specific custom formula for you. I don't think that is done at the jobber level - at least not formally. I could be wrong in this understanding. If Frank S. comes by maybe he can either confirm or correct me. I do believe that DuPont's YS074, SpectraMaster Yellow, is a near perfect match to the early persian orange used by AC on their tractors. The visual test that Jason(ma) did and posted here before has proven that to me. It's a better match than any of the DuPont formula codes previously listed specifically for that tractor color.

I have no idea what PPG's similar scanning capability is or even what it's called. It's unfortunate that you didn't have good luck with it. If it's that bad it can't possibly be competitive. I'd suspect a jobber problem. I think you've said in the past that your PPG jobber left something to be desired.

Rod

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