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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

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Rod (NH)

07-02-2006 16:09:40




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CN,

L'll agree with B---. While my own first choice for air line is copper, steel (galv or not) should work fine with the proper filtration. It is, after all the mainstay choice for compressed air and has been for many, many years. I have no idea what the micron rating is for those little line filters that you put at the gun inlet - I don't use one at all. Also a water trap is not a filter. If your problem is particulate matter originating somewhere in your piping system, water traps are not the solution. A "standard" particulate filter for painting from DeVilbiss is 5 micron. A similar one from Sharp appears to be 10 micron. These are in combo filter/regulator units. I wouldn't expect them to be wire mesh but I have never peered inside of one. Usually that type of filter has replaceable elements and is not like the cleanable oil bath air cleaners that you see on engine intakes. I don't know if what you have is something similar. The triple filtration unit you mention will be about the best you can get, although I'm not sure it is necessary. I have something similar (40 micron/1 micron/0.01 micron) but I suspect it is overkill. Certainly if you go with a coalescing filter (typical 0.01 micron), you need at least one coarser filter (prefilter) upstream of it or the element could be clogging all the time. Fine filtration is almost always done in multiple stages, as a practical matter. Before you do anything however, try what B--- suggests regarding tearing into your filter at the gun for a visual inspection - just to check things. I suspect it's cheap enough to be considered a throw-away. Also try and find out what the micron rating of it is. If it's 20 or 40 micron, you may be getting finer stuff right through it anyway. If you are getting the finer stuff through, there probably are larger particles also that will be caught and will show up on a visual inspection - if the problem is originating somewhere in your plumbing system. I still think it is some kind of atmospheric contamination. If that's not a typo down below and you really do not use tack cloths just prior to paint, you should. That's pretty standard practice. I see recently somewhere (maybe DuPont) that sells tack cloths that are also treated with an anti-static material. They would seem to eliminate the extra steps of spraying an anti-static product. That may not be your problem but I just mention it in passing.

Rod

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CNKS

07-02-2006 18:28:06




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 Re: No! in reply to Rod (NH), 07-02-2006 16:09:40  
Rod and B -- Check the link -- In the diagram, the filter/whatever I am using is the 6950, click on the top right in the diagram. I had not seen this site before. I notice that it is for air tools, not for painting, but it has 1 micron filtering capacity. The ones for paint booths are two stage. Of course the diagram with all the filters/traps is for commercial people, not the one size fits all I am looking for. So, I don't know if the 6950 I have traps anything but water or not. I stripped the threads on my oldest filter, the one closest to the compressor, will have to replace the canister, so I took it apart. It consists of fabric webbing on one end and wire mesh webbing on the other. Slightly stained, not really dirty. I also tore apart the filter on the gun, just a stack of paper washers, absolutely clean and dry. I am leaning toward getting a Sharpe or other 2,3 stage, since RTI does not recommend the one I have for paint. However the owner of the business I bought it from sells a lot of them for painting, and is a painter himself -- so I do not know. With your and B's opposition to the line change (I liked your NO!), I am pretty much convinced that the lines are not the problem. I looked at a couple of parts I painted Friday, they aren't that bad, maybe I'm too picky. But, I would like to paint something and not get those bumps or needle points, or solvent pop, or whatever it is.

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Rod (NH)

07-02-2006 20:19:15




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 Re: No! in reply to CNKS, 07-02-2006 18:28:06  
The E4000 for the paint booth appears to be a 6950 with a dessicant drier module ahead of it, forming a combo. It's still a 1 micron final filter. I think your 6950 should be more than adequate for particulate removal for painting purposes. I don't see anything at that link that would indicate that it wasn't. I assume you also have a 6950 at your painting drop station, immediately upstream of your regulator. One micron is very fine for a single unit filter. I suspect that wire mesh webbing serves as a built-in prefilter to the main fabric webbing filter portion. It's also probably the first thing after the inlet. Since you found nothing visable in the gun inlet filter, I don't think you problem originates in your plumbing at all. I would say that going to the triple 0.01 micron combo unit was not justified economically. I really am stumped here. I feel it must be atmospheric contamination but don't have a fix for it. I know you're in the dust bowl but have you tried painting something outside on a nice calm day, just for fun? Keep it high up off the ground though, I know the air plume can pick up dust on the ground and deposit it in the paint, especially if the spray direction is downward at any time. A watered down concrete apron would be nice if you have one. I wind up suspending parts from a sky hook (tractor bucket loader).

Rod

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CNKS

07-03-2006 05:59:04




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 Re: No! in reply to Rod (NH), 07-02-2006 20:19:15  
I tried outside once on a calm (for KS) day -- still much more wind and fume swirling than I liked. 3 feet off concrete, I don't think I wet it. No change. Going to get another filter to replace the one with the stripped threads -- hope business owner is there, I'm going to take one of my parts and see what he says. Do you have any explanation of my description: Sand the peak off, resulting in a sanded peak surrounded by untouched paint in a slight depression? Although the link does not mention the sanded peak, it does mention the depression -- referring to solvent pop.

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Rod (NH)

07-03-2006 16:13:59




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 Re: No! in reply to CNKS, 07-03-2006 05:59:04  
The only explanation I have of if it is dirt. Although I would expect any dirt particles to be removed along with the sanding dust. Like B---, I have a hard time thinking it is solvent pop, despite the similarites with dirt, since I know you take due care with such things as reducer selection and flash times (the classic reasons for solvent pop). Furthemore if it was solvent pop, I would expect it to be much more widespread and uniform in the film than what I understand it is - simply due to the basic causes of it.

B--- brings up (up above) an interesting hybrid situation of foreign particles contaminated with oil/silicone, thereby taking on the appearance of both dirt and fisheyes. I don't know. I think it is dirt of some kind. Have you attempted to use any kind of magnification for a better visual of a typical spot? Both before and after sanding. I am thinking if you could possibly identify it as some type of foreign matter that way, it would eliminate the solvent pop from further consideration - at least I think it would.

Rod

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CNKS

07-03-2006 17:48:06




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 Re: No! in reply to Rod (NH), 07-03-2006 16:13:59  
I have not completely ruled out solvent pop, but two people I talked to today said dirt. Although they are probably right, dirt seems to be the 1st consideration, as it should be I guess--Read, if you haven't already my response to B's post, above.



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Rod (NH)

07-02-2006 16:22:20




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 Re: No! in reply to Rod (NH), 07-02-2006 16:09:40  
OOPS! I read your "tack coats" as "tack cloths". Sorry about that.



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