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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Epoxy primer/hardener?

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JMS/MN

07-09-2007 23:34:30




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Went to Car Quest last week to get some epoxy primer. Owner says it can only be used with hardener. Told him I can't use it- been looking for an SAS- don't have one yet. Is it necessary to use hardener (isocyanate) with an epoxy primer?. Always used an industrial primer before this, under AC Corporate Orange. TIA.




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B-maniac

07-13-2007 19:48:56




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 Re: Epoxy primer/hardener? in reply to JMS/MN, 07-09-2007 23:34:30  
The correct name for these chemicals is "catylist". That does not nessessarily mean it is a "hardner". PPG and Omni epoxy primers use an iso free catylist. A catylist is a chemical that when added to another creates a chemical reaction that creates a product with properties that neither could produce alone. In the case of epoxy,s , it creates a product that has superior adhesion and corosian resistance through chemical reaction with the substrate. It is not a "hardner" in the sense of the word we normally think of. It cures but it's main function is to chemically bond the substrate to the succeding products applied. It's still pretty nasty stuff. It requires cannister type respirator but not nessessarily supplied air.

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JMS/MN

07-09-2007 23:51:29




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 Re: Epoxy primer/hardener? in reply to JMS/MN, 07-09-2007 23:34:30  
Should have read today's board first- just read the CNKS post a bit lower-re: epoxy needs hardener. He is one of several here whose post's I always trust over the years....was absolutely right about something I posted last year re: paint and reducer were not compatible, thus the problem I was having. I'm still working on the same tractor- a 1949 AC Model WF. Most is painted- but I have epoxy primer on the fuel tank..... should I go down to bare metal, use the industrial primer like I did on the rest of the tractor? Or leave the epoxy primer in place and paint over it?

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Rod (NH)

07-10-2007 16:34:57




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 Re: Epoxy primer/hardener? in reply to JMS/MN, 07-09-2007 23:51:29  
Hi,

Automotive epoxies are two-part products. The epoxy itself requires mixing with an additive just prior to application. It all depends on the exact epoxy product whether the required additive (usually called a catalyst but sometimes also referred to as a "hardener") contains isocyanates. The two epoxies from PPG that I have used do not contain isocyanates in the catalyst. I believe most epoxy additives do not contain isocyanates. However, I recently ran across a "store brand" epoxy primer that did contain isocyanates in the so called "hardener" for it. See my prior post here. The only way you can be sure that isocyanates are not involved is to read the manufacturer's Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the exact "hardener" used. Knowing the brand name and product designation, you should be able to find that information on the manufacturer's website. If you can't, then I would look for a different epoxy source - one that can be used w/o exposure to isocyanates. Don't take a salesman's word as being definitive on anything.

I see no reason to remove any existing epoxy, assuming the part was properly prepped before application of it. In my opinion you won't wind up with anything better, no matter what other primer you use. The issue you may be up against in keeping it is the time window for painting over it. If you have exceeded the time window, normally you would want to scuff and reapply another coat of epoxy prior to anything else being applied over it. This is to obtain the very best adhesion between the epoxy and whatever is going to go over it. If you were to select an epoxy like PPG's OMNI MP170 for any recoat, that would be easy enough to do while keeping the existing epoxy. Plus it would be iso-free.

Rod

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