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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

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Rod (NH)

02-20-2005 21:14:04

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I just noticed that the PPG "Tractor Color List" that I have indicates IH50 is 70019, although it has "Lt" before it. More confusion. It would be nice to see comparative sprayouts of all of 'em. Unfortunately, I guess you don't have an original sample to go from so couldn't tell which one is the closest to the real thing, even if you had the sprayouts.

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CNKS

02-21-2005 06:54:36

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Re: Update in reply to Rod (NH), 02-20-2005 21:14:04

Frank sent me that list, also, I have not fully digested it yet, as I hate to switch brands, since I like the way Omni works, nothing at all against DuPont, I simply have not used it. I don't paint enough to be able to make comparisons, I suppose I should get a pint of PPG and a pint of DuPont, see which I like, and make absolutely sure the next batch is mixed the same way under penalty of death or something (not really). It is my opinion, based on what I have read, and what others have told me that the "correct" IH 50 (light red) is PPG 70019/DuPont 7410, and that the IH 2150 (darker red) for later tractors is PPG 71310/DuPont 96766. To confuse the issue further 2150 did not replace 50, a similar color called 1102b did, and there was another color that I have seen in print only one time, I don't remember it. 2150 did not appear until the late 50's and was used I believe into the 80's or perhaps around the time that Tenneco aquired IH and merged it with Case. I have never heard of anyone having 1102b mixed, I haven't read Frank's info that close, I probably should. Biggest problem I have is getting the supplier to mix the paint right, and it now appears that there are so many variables that it may never happen, at least with my current dealer. I do get the grams printed out on the back of the label, I wish I had the other can back that I tossed a year or so ago. Thanks, I'm going to sort thru all your's and Frank's data before I buy any more paint, and try to make an approximately correct decision.

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Frank Stalfire

02-21-2005 07:58:24

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Re: Update in reply to CNKS, 02-21-2005 06:54:36

Just a quick foolow up, there is NO standard IHC red standard which everyone goes by, the color lab puts out a color and later someone will call them and say they have a tractor that is lighter or darker or redder or yellower or whatever and the lab will make an alternate color then someone else will call with a tractor they say is even differnet and so on, so you can see how so many variations of the same color you will see, you do need to spray them out if you are very critical of the one you want, it does seem that the IHC # 7410 seems to match what most people have,

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CNKS

02-21-2005 13:34:24

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Re: Update in reply to Frank Stalfire, 02-21-2005 07:58:24

Except that 7410 is supposedly for pre-1949 tractors, as is your B. The one I'm working on now is a 1958, which should be 96766, or whatever the last person who mixed it said it was, I guess. I always thought that somewhere back in time, someone (DuPont or PPG or both) matched the color from the factory IH 50 and 2150, that was the "correct" color, and should not be modified -- I guess not. If it's left up to people like me, who confuse red and orange, you could have a thousand colors. I thought that suppliers or body shops only modified the formula when they were trying to exactly match a replacement fender to an existing door on a car or something. If they painted the whole car, they mixed according to the factory code on the car, and then would get no complaints unless they really messed up. Can I go to my friendly Case IH dealer, get a quart of 2150, which in theory is the correct paint, spray it out, have PPG, DuPont, or whoever match it as close as they can -- then can them or I keep that formula and get it duplicated the next time??

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Frank Stalfire

02-21-2005 19:48:10

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Re: Update in reply to CNKS, 02-21-2005 13:34:24

The automotive world of color is different fom the antique tractor world for sure, the OEM car makers give a pysical spray out of new colors and the paint manufactuers are responsible for duplicating those colors, the antique tractor world has no colors from the OEM's like IHC so people from Dupont or who ever would literally go to tractor shows and match the colors they found on tractors, they would of course look for tractors with original paint or what was thought to be original, but if you go to a show in PA or Iowa you would probably find different variation of colors, so they would collect as much info as possible and offer an average color thought to match most things in the field, then if someone came to the manufactuer and had a shade it would be created and offered as an alternate. If you have a color you feel is correct and can not find a formula that matches you can have your local jobber match it with either the Spectramaster or equivilent, use a color camera, or if you can provide a sample they can send it to the color lab and they will make a formula, you then can ask for the formula for future mixes. keep in mind if a toner is deleted or added the mix will have to be redone. I hope I'm helping and not confusing you.It's easyer to see the process then to explain the process.

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CNKS

02-22-2005 05:34:58

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Re: Update in reply to Frank Stalfire, 02-21-2005 19:48:10

I may sound confused, I'm really not, just asking questions for clarification -- the problem is I do not have access to either the correct color, or one that I believe to be acceptable -- which is why I keep asking questions. I believe you clarified the process with the "going to tractor shows and matching the color" thing. The closest I can now come to the "correct color" is getting some IH 2150 from the dealer and having it matched in acrylic urethane by PPG or DuPont -- but with the changes that CIH's supplier made when they changed to their "acrylic" formula, it probably is not "correct" either. So it appears that it is anyones guess, and that there is nothing scientific about it. It also appears that "correct" is nothing more than someones opinion, even if they do try to get it right.

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