Re: electrical charging question on '41 H

Posted by John T on September 18, 2005 at 19:03:40 from (66.244.90.98):

In Reply to: Re: electrical charging question on '41 H posted by awutay on September 18, 2005 at 18:35:59:

aut, it sounds like you have a 3 wire Voltage Regulator (BAT ARM FLD) terminals but its wired incorrect and it sounds like maybe someone was using its internal cutout relay but still using the light switch to regulate field current??? Its possible to work that way but its a jury rig. Heres how to correctly wire a 3 terminal VR which ought to work regardless IFFFFFF the generator is any good and the VR works.

BAT on the VR wires to the load (NOT to battery) side of the ammeter.

ARM (or GEN) on VR wires to the Gens Armature post.

FLD on VR wires to the Gens Field post. When using a VR instead of a cutout relay, theres no wiring from the Gens Field post up to any light switch such as on most cutour relay systems.

To save time I will cut n past my generic Troubleshooting Procedure for use on Voltage Regulator systems some of which may repeat what Ive already said:::::::::

TROUBLESHOOTING NO CHARGE ON A CLASS A VOLTAGE REGULATOR CHARGING SYSTEM

If you havent polarized, you may wanna do that just to make sure it is!!!!!! Temporarily ground the Gens Field post to case then momentarily flash jump a wire from the VR's BAT terminal over to its ARM (or GEN) terminal (or direct to ARM post on Gen) and you ought to get a spark. Always try the simple fixes first!!!!

1) For a good working Gen to get to and charge the battery, it has to have a path usually from the Gens ARM post output,,,,,,,,,,,to and through the cutout relay portion of the VR (between its ARM and BAT terminals),,,,,,,,,up to the Load (NOT to battery) side of the Ammeter,,,,,,,,,to and through the ammeter,,,,,,,,,,from BAT side of ammeter to ungrounded battery post, often via the starter lug post. Is yours wired that way or equivalent ??? The ammeter should read hot battery voltage on BOTH terminals, does yours??? Even if an ammeter were stuck (but still continuous) as RPM increases the battery voltage should rise from 12.6 to near 14 volts (half that on 6 volt systems) and/or the lights glow brighter. Have you tried that in case the ammeter isnt working right???????

2) If the above is so, the BAT terminal on the VR MUST ALWAYS READ HOT BATTERY VOLTAGE. Does yours??? If not, the Gen cant get to and charge the battery.

3) The Gen to VR wiring is as follows:

BAT on VR to ammeters load (NOT battery) side

ARM (or GEN) on VR to Gens Armature post.

FLD on VR to Gens Field post.

(L) Load (if you have a 4 wire VR) up to BAT supply input terminal on switch to feed loads like lights and ingition.

4. THE GEN AND VR MUST BE WELL GROUNDED AND THE BELT GOOD N TIGHT. If any doubt, run a ground wire from the grounded battery post or clean solid frame member direct to the Gen and see what happens????????????????????????????

NOW, if the Gen and VR are grounded,,,,,all is wired correct,,,,,,,,BAT terminal on VR is HOT,,,,,,,,Belt is tight,,,,,,,,,ammeter is good n continuous n works but she wont charge, have you had the batteries tested lately????? Is there electrolyte above all the plates and no cells have a gray or milky appearance?????? A bad battery may not accept a charge you know!!!!!!!! If she dont, proceed below to see if its a Gen or VR problem (AFTER you have insured the wiring per the above)

TO DETERMINE IF ITS A GEN OR VR PROBLEM

5. With the tractor running, temporarily ground the Gens Field post to case. If she charges then, the VR may be bad, or a wires missing from VR's Field post to the Field terminal on the VR, or the VR isnt well grounded.

6. If she still dont charge, leave Field grounded and jump a wire across from the VR's BAT and ARM terminals (jump by passes the cutout relay) and see if she charges. If then but not otherwise, the VR's cutout relay isnt working correct (maybe points burned/carboned/resistive)

7. With the 2 steps above, you have basically by passed the VR functions, so if she still dont charge, you're left with a bad battery or wiring or the Gen itself.

8. MOTOR TEST. You can Motor test the Gen. If its grounded and you remove the belt and apply hot battery voltage direct to its ARM Post, it should motor n run well (Armature n Brushes and Commutator okay). Then if you ground the Field and it slows down some, the Fields probably good. If it passes both those tests, it should charge, and if not, it may be a wirign or battery or grounding problem.

9. Typical Gen problems may be the brushes are worn down or the hold down spring assemblies are stuck/corroded/dirty and arent pushing the brushes tight down against the commutator. Chekc those things out. Worse may be bad fields or armature etc. Air and WD 40 etc can clean and free them, the hold downs must be free n snap and hold the brushes DOWN TIGHT.

SUMMARY: Check the wiring,,,,,the grounds,,,,,,insure BAT on VR is hot,,,,,,,check battery (maybe load tested and Specific Gravity checked),,,,,,,,,good tight belt,,,,,,,insure ammeter is continuous (BOTH sides HOT),,,,,,see if battery voltage rises above 12.6 and/or light glow brighter,,,,,,,,,do the Field and cutout relay VR by pass checks,,,,,,,,insure the Gens brushes arent worn down and the hold down springs are free n clean and push the brushes down tight,,,,,,,,,,,check the connections,,,,,,,,,try the Gen Motor Test to see if its good.

You may just have a bad battery or bad ground or connection if you say the Gen and VR are okay.

Good Luck n God Bless, let us all know.

John T Nordhoff, retired electrical engineer in Indiana

Follow Ups:

• Re: electrical charging question on '41 H awutay 18:45:48 09/30/05 (0)
• Re: electrical charging question on '41 H awutay 17:32:52 09/29/05 (0)

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