Posted by Stan(VA). on November 13, 2007 at 22:51:13 from (4.249.153.118):
Hugh, Before I start I want to preface this with the fact that I appreciate your posts on here as much as anyone. I enjoy reading your stories and memories, and am grateful for the practical knowlege and experience you offer. I believe we are here for the same reasons; to learn, and to share what we've learned so as to hopefully help a few others along. That is the spirit in which this is offered.
For anyone who doesn't have a clue what were talking about ;) the question is whether the C123 was ever updated to use a 14 bolt head as the I&T manual infers. Illustration captions and paragraph #26 on page 14 of manual IH-201 can infer that the C123 was switched over at SN 65001 to a 14 bolt head as all the C135's had. My findings have differed and that is what this is over. Hugh has stated that while working on his 140 he remembers it as having a 14 bolt head, and I have been trying to convince him it's worth a second look ;)
I decided to move this from from Scott#2's thread a couple days ago to a different title, http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=625381
>>And Hugh, that is definately the later 140/240 series block as you can see from the flat in the lower left picture. Count his head bolt positions... Just a gentle reminder that the I&T manual has an error.
>>Stan: If the IT manual is wrong, you tell us what is correct. Bear in mind I know it's between engine number 56651 and 103230. seeing is believing.
Hugh, I was over looking at BobG's tractor today (Bob, I posted an update for you on your clutch thread several pages back) and took these pictures as it is a good case for this discussion. It is a very late 140, 1974 by SN, is a factory 12V system with engine SN-132727 and casting number 367825. It is still a 9 bolt head.
Block Casting Number 367825
Engine SN C123-132727
Left Side of Engine
9 Head bolts, 4 visable, 5 under the valve cover
Following is a repost of the info I gave you a couple years ago, I edited it a little to try and make sure things are clear, if it's not please ask: http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=475475
Below is what I have found from time in the parts books (CDROM) and actually pulling several motors apart. ---From the parts CDROM, the C123 designated block starts on the hundred series with C123-501.
C123 engine SN's 501-36000 as used in 100/200 has block 354898 and head 251172/355046* C123 36001-65000 used in 130/230 has block 366204 and head 355046/366299* C123 65001-up as used in 140/240 has block 367825 and head 366299 notes: (*) all head casting numbers are gas(no distilates), and all are 9 bolts. Head change dates are unclear from parts book, but 251172 is as used on C/Super C, 355046 has larger valves as in 366299. I still haven't seen a 355046 yet. - all C123's (and C135's from the 330/340) show the same head gasket, part number 366300 - new water pump design (meaning new block with the squared off front) at SN-65001 - all heads listed as 9 bolts, with a split at SN-39400 as head studs changed to head bolts. - C135 as used in the 330/340 shows 367727 block, 366299 head with 9 bolts and head gasket 366300(same as C123's) - C135 as used in the 404 shows 375596 block, 379240 head with 14 bolts and head gasket 383525(this is the only reference to a different head gasket which would be required) - C135 in 404 also shows different crankshaft/rods/bearings/rear main seal retainer. ---From Engines I have torn down: - a 230 (engine SN-39465) (block casting number verifies as above, can't read the head casting number but has large valves, looks same as 140 below) 9 bolt head; - a 140 (eng SN-101390) (block casting verifies as above, head casting 366299). Casting date 5-25-H (1962) tractor SN-20874, 9 bolt head; - a C135 (eng SN-128346) power unit block (casting date'T', with late style crank/rods/rear main seal), 14 bolt head. - also had a 240 U motor here a year ago with 'E' (1959) casting date, block and head numbers matched the 140 motor. This is how I've concluded that the C123's are all 9 bolt heads and and the C135's are where the split occurred Basically if you look between the manifold and the valve cover, on the 9 bolt head you will only see 4 bolts, while on the 14 bolt head you will see 7 bolts
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